Interview with Mik Godley.
23/01/2013 01:50PM
Minutes
KEY
Rachelle Brown
Mik Godley
What is your opinion of traditional art?
Traditional art, what do you mean by traditional art?
Sort of like I know you was a painter before,
I still am as you can see,
Like traditional painting and pencil drawing,
Oh so traditional media,
Yeah
Erm well I think it’s very much got its place its obviously moved on technically or in fact technologically in terms of what you can do with it these days and I think a lot of artists are using traditional media in perhaps quite new ways that wouldn’t have occurred to people even 50 years ago, erm its certainly now there are lots more possibilities especially with acrylics erm I mean if you look at new work that’s been happening with street art and graffiti art
Yeah its definitely taking off
Its erm Well one of the interesting things is erm what you might think of ,traditional painters isn’t quite the right word, but contempary painters erm are have kinda been looking at graffiti artists work and using some of the kind of techniques and advances that they have trail blazed and erm indeed over the last few months one of the big paint manufacturers have released a range of artist very fine quality paints in a can which means that you can essentially use sprays to very high quality erm alongside normal paint so I think erm it’s an interesting position that so called traditional arts or certainly contempory painting has got is that it’s very much now being informed by technological advances and also I think the way of looking at it has erm moved on tremendously cos of cause we are influenced by the digital age.
Yeah definitely
So erm so as far as my own work is concerned obviously using ipad art that has changed the way I think about and look at traditional painting so is that enough?
Erm well that brings me onto what is your opinion of digital art?
Yeah well erm well I erm I well an opinion is a difficult thing to have its moving on all the time erm and erm I think one of the issues I’ve had over the past few years is keeping pace with the new developments and erm especially with the way that the ipad has driven app developers to change their apps all the time and give them new possibilities basically every couple of days my drawing apps need updating and there’s new possibilities that I have to try and figure out how to work with erm which is fascinating and erm one of the things even last night for instance which I first downloaded probably 2 years ago and haven’t really looked at erm but remembered it had been updated several times and thought oh I’ll just have a quick look at it erm and erm happily spent a couple of hours trying to figure out what the changes were and erm and basically the reason I hadn’t used it before was because it was very limiting whereas now it’s been developed so much with all the updates that I realized last night it could be a very good one to use whereas a year or so ago it wasn’t a good one at all so erm so that’s fascinating aswel but it is a hard job trying to keep pace with it erm I mean especially as I have I don’t know how many different drawing apps but is probably 20
Yeah, I just brought an ipad and I was overwhelmed by how many there literally is
Very much so I mean there are ones that I use most of the time and erm because there erm, some of them I find to kind off complex erm and erm and basically that’s usually because they have been built with graphic designers in one way or another who have already got a lot of experience of using that kind of digital work on a computer so they are just basically transferring that onto a touch screen which is fine but actually I find that the functions on it are not that useful for a painter so erm so ive kinda looked at them but then kinda thought there not much use so im not saying I would never use them its just that I think painters need different kinds of functions to designers
So what led you to start using the ipad?
I think the thing is it happened by accident as most good things do and erm I started using an ipod touch and the reason for that is id got some money to buy a computer and basically id ordered over the phone and the guy said do you want and ipad touch with that for £30 and I I thought , well I didn’t really know what one was to be honest but thought ok yeah it will be useful for commuting on the train erm and but to be honest it stayed in its box for a year cos I thought I had no use for it until a mate of mine at work had got himself and iphone and he had seen the stuff David hockney was using on his iphone erm so he showed me his version of it and it was this app called brushes which has been my ‘mate’ since. As soon as he showed me it could be used visually erm I just got hooked completely cos I thought it was great fun erm and so as I say it was very accidental but at the time also erm I hadn’t got a studio so it was a good way of working and making stuff just on the kitchen table without having to get all the paints and stuff out,
Without making a mess
Well yeah so erm and I soon found that even on the ipod touch some over the vector apps I mean I use adobe ideas a lot and paintbook but erm once you got your head round the idea of it because you can produce enormous great big prints from these things erm because there vectors not pixels so I started playing around with those more and erm and then a funny thing happened as I was beginning all this, well two things happened I supposes first of all I happened to be in this sandwich queue at work and erm and went to get my sandwich and was playing on the ipod and my boss was behind me and I said oh have you seen this you can do all sorts of stuff with this and erm and then a little while later I was offered a solo exhibition at erm the Edinburgh art fair so this is like 2 years ago now no 2 n half years ago so erm I did the exhibition and erm the boss was quite keen on new technologies and hes invested a lot of money as far as computer suites and god knows what else are concerned erm so basically he brought me an ipad erm and erm and so it sought of developed from there really and the reason, although he didn’t say this at the time one of the reasons he brought it me so that I could train myself and then teach everybody how to use it so it was cheap training, staff training, you know how it is
It was a good trick wish I had a boss like that
So do you think you require traditional art skills in order to create digital art?
Erm yes and no it depends on what you want to do with it I think erm I think you can do a lot with I mean you need very good visual skills I think I mean if you want to do the kind of stuff I do then erm that, that uses very traditional drawing and painting skills and erm but it doesn’t really matter, I don’t think it matters whether you use physical paint or virtual paint its kind off the base skills are the same but as I said visual skills are the core to all of it so erm its about I suppose it’s about how to look and make decisions about things in terms of sort of saying that’s good and that’s not go so it’s sort of and editing job I suppose isn’t it really so yeah the answers yes and no
This one is sort of similar now but does your painting skills enhance the work that you do on the ipad?
Erm I think it’s almost the other way round in that I think that work on the ipad its enhanced sort of my drawing and painting skills because it means that I can practice more it means at times and situations where as I’ve said I don’t have a studio or I’m not here so it’s different in that respect I think erm ask me the question again please
Do your painting skills enhance the work that you do on the ipad?
Ahh yeah that’s what I was saying I think that the other issue is that probably because I do bring like a lot of work in physically you know then that has sort of directed very much the work I do with ipad I’m still very aware that at the moment, I’m not saying this will always be the case but at the moment the work that I do on the ipad kinda looks like normal drawing and painting because that’s where I’ve come from
Yeah it looks so realistic
But I think that well I know that is gradually evolving and changing so the two are in a relationship with each other and I think that good but I’m also aware that in some respects in terms of making art if you like I’m still kind of comfortable with things looking like normal paintings or drawings but I don’t think that will be forever because its already changing do you know what I mean
Yeah, defiantly some of it is getting more abstract
Yeah you know the kind of qualities with some of the stuff that I’ve done and experiments I’ve done erm on the ipad that aren’t really feasible to do in normal painting erm are affecting the way it’s working erm but then again it’s also effecting my ordinary paintings its in this sort of relationship its not a kind of erm simple one than the other it’s a discussion between the two
Do you prefer traditional painting or ipad art?
Erm I’ve got no preference but I enjoy each for different reasons I mean one of the things I do enjoy about sort of physically making drawings and paintings is I suppose the physical activity like chucking a brush around erm there’s that kind of that has its own kind of satisfactions if you like, its good fun erm which is why I’m splattered with yellow from this morning erm so it’s that always been something ive enjoyed and it’s a bit like being at play school and just making mud pies,
You just sort of get in the zone don’t you
Yeah absolutely but no although its nothing like as physical your just using your finger erm then erm yeah I still, well I get something different but like an equivalent if you know what I mean
Can the same effects be created on an ipad as with a paint brush?
No, erm very similar and obviously a lot of the apps try to some more than others try to replicate erm the way that erm that you know traditional media and different brushes and goodness knows what else erm they try replicate what they do erm with some success but there not absolute there kind of erm they can do a certain amount but in the end you know it working with an ipad because its digital is kind of virtual erm whereas there is something very evidently physical you know it’s about the substance of the stuff that working on a nice big canvas has, it’s a different thing you know,
I did see, I can’t remember if on one of you links you sent about a new type of brush that had been brought out and I thought that was quite like interesting because I’ve only had my ipad a couple of weeks but I’ve been kind of playing about with pens and still feels abit odd to me, I’m normally like traditional artist stuck in a sketchbook so its defiantly bridging the gap because I think I’ve not really ever done like,
Well there’s a guy that erm that’s been putting a lot of YouTube videos out called David caselle, I don’t know if you’ve heard of him and he’s been using these brush things quite a lot I’ve tried a stylus thing once and I didn’t like it because it seemed to have a time lag it didn’t respond as immediately as working with your finger, I’m sure these things will improve and maybe this new brush thing will but I’m not trying it as I was really sort of put off with that stylus thing I just think well I don’t need it so I don’t really see the point, so erm but you know the other sort of apps, have you looked at art rage at all?
I have downloaded it but I’ve not used it yet,
Well that’s another one that’s sort of come from you know pcs and Macs and erm been adapted as an app but that is specifically, basically it has like oil paints and palette knives and goodness knows what else. It tries to make it look more like that with some success but it erm I don’t know, I’ve not really experimented with it that much I don’t know it just doesn’t seem to float my boat, I mean the other thing is that I’m kind of torn between spending time getting to know all these different apps which does take a lot of time erm and actually making work and very often the work that I do certainly the more sort of substantial work erm you know it can take a long time to produce and erm an you know one of the things, and that’s been another issue is that some of the apps wont cope with that they don’t have enough memory which is one of the reasons why I’ve eased of vector apps because they crash and erm I notice that after working on something for about three days so it’s probably had about 18-20 hours work and that’s it the vector apps will just implode and you’ve got to download them again and you’ve lost everything so erm I kinda stopped using them so much, I will use them of sort of specific things but I know I’m limited on how much I can use them, whereas on that brushes thing for instance it just keeps going forever I mean you can work for days and days and it never seems to pack in its great so yeah, ive probably gone completely off the point there.
In your opinion is digital art equally as viable as traditional art?
Equally?
Viable.
Viable? Erm it depends what you mean by viable,
If you say were to buy some art would you say it has the same value if somebody had painted it or if it was digital
Well now that’s a different thing, I think there is still a bit of reluctance, well maybe reluctance isn’t the right word basically people who buy art tend to be quite, in certain circumstances seem to be quite conservative they want to know what they have got is not the same as what everybody else has got they want to know it’s going to last and the technology for digital work erm isn’t proven long enough its only just been quite recent for intake acrylic paints is beginning to be accepted erm you know erm its still you know lagging behind the traditional oil on canvas erm I think compared to oil on canvas which we know lasts for centuries digital media well the upstarts too new and people will trust them to a certain extent but they aren’t going to fork out a huge amount I mean they’ll spend a few quid on a print but erm that will be it so I do mean just few quid which in that respect its tricky because stuff is still quite expensive to print so the viability financially is less really so there’s pluses and minuses because one of the advantages of digital is that you don’t have a storage problem with unsold, lots and lots of canvass that haven’t been sold yet so you don’t have to fork out on storage you just need a hard drive I suppose basically erm so erm so its swings and roundabouts with that, I think digital work is improving in its viability and printing costs are coming down, and when im talking about printing I’m not talking about cheap quality it’s the guaranteed good quality prints that the industry reckons will last 70-100 years or whatever, erm but of course public opinion takes a while to catch up to it so they are not willing to invest more than a few quid on something they just thing is to be massively reproduced so it’s not like a one off, and you know if you can produce 1000s then it reduces the amount of money that they are going to fork out on it there’s a number of issues that play and its changing all the time and I think the problem for a punter if you like is the knowledge that digital work is endlessly reproduced whereas most buyers art want something that is very limited edition or something that won’t be reproduced I don’t know something like an etching which can only be physically printed from a certain amount of time before the plate is no good so erm or else something that is original like one single painting.
It’s definitely opened my eyes because ive seen a lot of debates on the internet and seen people getting quite vicious with their sort of opinions of like whether ones better than the other.
I think obviously there’s a lot of enthusiasts for digital art erm you know on the making kind of side of it the people who are massively in love with making digital art you know like all kinds of geeky stuff they get into and they seem to think that everybody should be a convert erm and basically give them lots of money for their work but from a buyers perspective erm as an investment it’s more of an issue because erm its doesn’t have the same value as an original. Some major league artists are sort of playing with digital aswel and photographers one of the interesting things is to do with scale Wolfgang Tillmans I think his name is erm who erm had a gianormous digitally printed but wasn’t digital imagery originally but erm this print must have been 10foot high by 20 foot wide and it was actually 2 erm prints stuck together and erm Wolfgang Tillmans he won the turner prize hes like basically married to one of the biggest art dealers in the country and sells his work for thousands upon thousands and I’m sure that simply because his name and sheer scale of them means you cant reproduce those prints so basically there’s likely to be only one of two ever to be produced so the value of those is likely to be secure I would think.
Do you think technology is enabling better ways of creating art?
Certainly different ways lots of different ways I think its erm its also allowing us to see things differently I think that’s the important thing, erm for me erm it opens uo a kind of different way of looking at the world because obviously the digital world is part of the normal physical world you know weve got our phones with us all the time erm so it had become erm sort of part of everyday life.
Erm not yet, I think it will do but I think at the moment what needs to happen is erm from my observations there are still very few what I would call contempary artists that are engaging with new technologies outside of film and video, film and video has been very well accepted but I think in terms of whatever relates to drawing and painting hasn’t yet erm and erm and I think theres still quite a lot of resistance against artists although they are using it in certain ways but artists are trying to figure out how to relate to and use new technologies in a way that they are comfortable with and its not quite there yet its erm Id be struggling to find what I would think of as a contempary artists that uses an ipad there are very very few that actually want to do that which I’ve been surprised by to be honest I find it odd that so few artists will do that erm there not trusting or something
Do you think it’s more about letting the progress through time or say people watching others do it and then think oh yeah this could be more?
Well there are different things happening you know you’ve got contempary painters like Fiona ray and Gordon chung there using computers to design their work but then they are going and painting them traditionally sort of it is very much part of the process but it’s usually in the design process instead of a sketchbook sort of thing. So erm which is possibly where the ipad while find itself moving towards as far as contempary artists are concern you know perhaps more people will use it for that rather than a sketchbook
As a teacher would digital art ever be something you would consider teaching?
Well I have been teaching students that was the main reason I think my boss gave me one, but even then a lot of the student preferred using normal media which has been a big surprise to me I kind off assumed that erm you know because there used to using iphones etc all the time that erm they would take to working on an ipad like ducks to water but no they still want to use paintbrushes and sticks of charcoal and normal stuff which is very odd, last year I spent a long time trying to teach illustration students who you would thought would be the natural users as a lot of ipad apps are basically built for illustration and graphic design and erm out of 30 students there were probably only 4 or 5 that were at all interested
I’m quite shocked about that considering their illustration students, I would have thought it would be one of the things they liked using
No they want to use inks and pastels you know very old fashioned stuff which is very funny but that’s the case and I don’t know why it’s just what I’ve found I think that will change I think its and evolving situation but at the moment you know it’s just what they prefer.
Do you think they believe it requires less skill?
As part of the sort of teaching process what I have found useful I suppose is showing them examples of work that I’ve done and other artists have done and its quite evident that you have to be quite skilled to achieve the results that these artists are getting erm so I think they are quite well aware it does take skill but erm these are foundation students that I’m talking about so erm there kind of right at the beginning of their artistic career I think its mostly the mud pie thing they just like playing with the materials you know, and they don’t get that same feeling from touch screen.
I know before I came to I came to uni I used my gap year to do an art course and I was in shock when they told me I had to do graphic design when for weeks and weeks it had all been sketchbook based and now we had to use photoshop and I remember thinking I don’t have a clue but now it just normal to used those programs
You know you have to sort of get used to these things, but you know a lot of web designers do start off with a sketchbook don’t they,
Yeah I think that’s what I miss most on my course as everything is computer based
Well this questions sort of been discussed now but would you say a novice would require teaching in order to successfully use ipad apps
No I don’t think so I think there’s, I mean all the time I have to look at youtube tutorials and there’s a lot of information out there for people and the main thing really is just spending time playing with it, to find out what’s possible and what you can do and what you can’t do so erm no I think anyone can pick it up just as much as anybody else, as I say you can get more technical and design orientated apps I’m sure it helps if you have already got a background in cad or whatever else it is you know a lot of photoshop experience, but I suppose one of the reasons why ive been teaching brushes not the new versions but the old version is because it’s like a very simplified version of Photoshop and so many students have got to learn how to use Photoshop anyway but erm it gives a very easy introduction to photoshop but erm but really no, and also the other thing is you know it does depend on the app some are incredibly complicated and I think really are for specialists and I think if a complete novice was to get hold of one of those apps they would be completely flummoxed erm however there are a lot that are very straight forward drawing and painting apps and there are even some that are done specifically for kids so theyare even simpler so it would take to much effort to get a bit of an idea, so if you were to get a kids app for instance most of them are free erm and start with that and perhaps within a couple of hours you could progress from that to a more sophisticated app, itws just like any sort of craft or skill base it takes time to learn how to do it that’s the same as learning to play a piano or sketch in your sketchbook it just takes time to get use to doing it there’s no kind of pill to speed it up you just have to put the time in, and if you can’t draw there are other ways of doing it it’s the visual skills that are most important. Have you ever seen van goghs drawings?
Yeah they are amazing.
Erm probably about 20 years go I went to some sort of centenary and I didn’t like van gogh me and my kids were on holiday with my parents in Holland and my parent insisted we went to this centenary exhibitions of his drawings erm and I sort of said alright then and I was amazed , I found the whole thing quite fascinating, what amazed me was the way it was laid out in chronological order so it began when he began drawing and went up to the end if his career and it was just his drawings not any of his paintings at all, and for the first 2-3 years you would, well I did look at his drawings and I just thought why did he bother he was hopeless absolutely hopeless but then after about 2 years it obviously clicked and something changed and I think it was down to perseverance I think it was just sticking at it and that’s what they said there was that book that came out a couple of years ago that said it takes 10,000 hours to become and expert at any subject you choose to do with your life, for most people this equates to about 10 years work, but in this book it gave the example of The Beatles and they went to Germany tfor 2 years and basically because they were away from home and just working didn’t have a lot of pay they were unknown, they were basically paid to go to Germany and play however many sets in thins bar and erm and basically they did there 10000 hours in Germany nonstop over a period of 2 years that then meant that they really did become experts at what they did and that’s what launched them and they were incredibly good, but you need that and it doesn’t matter where you start like van gogh completely hopeless to begin with but after he but the time in it began to take off for him and he did incredibly well, but you wouldn’t have thought so if you had seen his original drawings. You just have to become completely obsessed with doing the subject whatever it might be it could be like brain surgery or whatever you’ve just got to do it and erm especially for a skill , any skill golf, football whatever as long as you do stick at it chance are you’ll have it, so even novices can do it.
